--- title: "Hesai rejects the \"LiDAR is useless\" theory" type: "News" locale: "en" url: "https://longbridge.com/en/news/224940552.md" description: "This year's shipment volume will exceed one million" datetime: "2025-01-14T17:50:43.000Z" locales: - [zh-CN](https://longbridge.com/zh-CN/news/224940552.md) - [en](https://longbridge.com/en/news/224940552.md) - [zh-HK](https://longbridge.com/zh-HK/news/224940552.md) generator: "portal-rs" --- # Hesai rejects the "LiDAR is useless" theory Author | Zheng Qiao Editor | Zhou Zhiyu After Tesla released the new version of FSD, the debate between the vision faction and the LiDAR faction has heated up again. At the same time, LiDAR companies have begun to seek new market opportunities outside of the automotive intelligent driving field. At CES 2025, Hesai Technology launched a series of new LiDAR products, including the 1440-line LiDAR AT1440, the automotive-grade pure solid-state LiDAR FTX, and the JT series aimed at robotics. Li Yifan pointed out that there is currently no consensus in the industry on the definition of robots, but the penetration rate of LiDAR in this field is growing rapidly. In December 2024 alone, over 20,000 LiDAR units were used in the robotics industry, and although this still represents a small proportion of the global robotics market, Hesai sees huge opportunities within it. It is understood that the AT1440 is equipped with Hesai's fourth-generation self-developed chip, utilizing efficient light-sensing and ultra-high parallel processing technology, with an angular resolution of 0.02° and point cloud clarity exceeding mainstream products by more than 30 times. The FTX has a ranging capability of up to 30m at a 10% reflectivity, with a point frequency 2.5 times that of the previous generation, reaching 492,000 points per second, and its ultra-high line count enables high-definition scanning of blind spots. Compared to the previous generation, the FTX has reduced weight by 66%, is adaptable to multiple scenarios, and can be used for passenger vehicles and robots. The JT is a platform product designed by Hesai specifically for the robotics field, utilizing Hesai's self-developed chip technology. This LiDAR targets a variety of robot types, covering mobile robots, delivery robots, cleaning robots, lawn mowing robots, and more. Currently, the JT LiDAR has begun mass production and delivery. Regarding the application trends of LiDAR by automotive companies, Li Yifan believes that one cannot conclude it as an industry trend just because some companies do not use it. He emphasized that although some automotive companies claim to abandon LiDAR, data shows that the market penetration rate of LiDAR is rapidly increasing. In 2023, the penetration rate of LiDAR in new energy vehicles priced above 150,000 yuan was only 12%, but by September 2024, this figure had risen to 24%, and it is expected to reach 40% next year. Hesai has also made it clear that it will deliver at least 1 million LiDAR units by 2025. As automotive companies begin to engage in price wars, suppliers, including those of LiDAR products, have also started price wars. Regarding the price of automotive LiDAR in 2025, Li Yifan revealed that Hesai's new products will be within the range of 200 USD. By adopting next-generation technology, costs can be reduced without compromising performance, and prices will be lower than those in 2024. Li Yifan clearly stated that the price of LiDAR cannot drop to the hundred-yuan machine era without a bottom line. On one hand, as market volume increases, the room for cost reduction has gradually narrowed; on the other hand, as a product related to safety, costs cannot be reduced at the expense of performance. When discussing automotive companies developing their own LiDAR, Li Yifan believes that automotive companies are essentially product companies and should focus on their core competencies, without the need to develop everything in-house. If the LiDAR required by various automotive companies is essentially the same, external suppliers are likely to produce better, cheaper, more standardized, and higher-quality products. With significant investments in research and development and self-developed chips, Hesai has advantages in cost, quality, and mass production, capable of meeting the needs of most automotive companies Regarding whether there will be models claiming L3 this year, Li Yifan stated that he cannot answer directly. On one hand, he does not want to answer on behalf of car companies, and on the other hand, he believes that the realization of L3 also depends on national laws and regulations, which have not yet been finalized. However, he agrees with the view that L3 requires perception redundancy. **At CES, Wall Street Insights had a discussion with founder and CEO Li Yifan on key issues such as the price of lidar, market penetration, the trend of self-research by car companies, and applications in different fields. The following is a transcript of the conversation (edited):** **Q: Will lidar ever reach the price point of a hundred yuan?** **Li Yifan:** Everyone hopes to see prices drop from ten thousand to one thousand, from one thousand to one hundred, from one hundred to ten, and from ten to one, but we still have to adhere to some physical laws. First, in the early years, the volume was not large enough, so costs could decrease, but now the volume is sufficient, so there is not much room for further reduction. Second, lidar is ultimately a safety product. If we continuously lower performance to achieve products at one hundred, ten, or one yuan, it is actually meaningless. We believe that today, a price level of two hundred dollars is actually a reasonable price, one that can be standard for everyone. Therefore, if we do not lower performance, there is not much opportunity to reduce costs, but sacrificing performance to lower costs does not align with the requirements of lidar as a safety component. **Q: Some players like XPeng and Leida are moving away from lidar. Do you think this is driven by cost and the pursuit of popularizing intelligent driving, or is there an industry trend behind it?** **Li Yifan:** In any era, it will never be 100%. We cannot conclude that this is an industry trend just because a few companies do not use lidar. Data shows that the penetration rate of lidar in China is rapidly increasing. In 2023, it was 12% among new energy vehicles priced over 150,000 yuan, and it is expected to reach 24% by September 2024, with an estimate of 40% next year. We have also publicly stated that we will deliver at least 1 million units by 2025. This has already been determined, but there are some customer names that I cannot disclose yet; they will announce them. So whether it is Hesai or several competitors, the trends we see are consistent. In the overall trend, although some car companies claim that we insist on a pure vision solution, or believe that lidar is "not better" than "having" it, I can understand that, but it is not a mainstream voice. Market analysis should look at the data, not just focus on one car company. There is a theory called "crossing the chasm," which states that once the penetration rate exceeds 15%, it becomes irreversible. The penetration rate of lidar in China is rapidly increasing, and we anticipated that we would "cross the chasm" in 2023, which was achieved ahead of schedule in March 2024. The reason everyone is paying attention to this issue is precisely because so many people are using it, so if one or two companies do not use it, it catches your attention, while those using it do not attract as much notice, but in reality, we still need to look at the total numbers. **Q: Will there also be debates between the vision faction and the lidar faction in the field of robotics?** **Li Yifan:** I don't know how everyone defines robotics; I feel that there is no consensus in the industry on the definition So today most people would think that "as long as it is not an ADAS mass-produced vehicle," it is called a robot. From this perspective, there have indeed not been many lidar applications in the robotics field historically, and the growth in penetration rate may not double every year, but rather increase tenfold each year. The situation we see today is also like this; in December, the number of lidar units used in the robotics industry exceeded 20,000. At the CES exhibition, everyone also saw various applications. If you ask what percentage of the global robotics market is represented by tens of thousands of units, it is still far from "crossing the chasm." I estimate it is a very, very small number, so there is a huge opportunity here. **Q: Many car manufacturers are now developing their own lidar. Do you think they are strong competitors compared to self-developed lidar? Where is Hesai's differentiation?** **Li Yifan:** Car manufacturers are essentially product companies, and their goal should not be to self-develop everything but to focus on core components. If the products needed by each company are essentially the same, theoretically, there should not be a strong motivation to self-develop, because external suppliers are likely to produce a better, cheaper, more standardized, and higher-quality product. Taking lidar as an example, while lidar is important, not every car manufacturer needs different models. The basic needs are similar; for instance, Hesai's AT series has two generations of products that are compatible with over 100 vehicle models. From a problem-solving perspective, car manufacturers do not need to self-develop. The unique cost-reduction methods that car manufacturers believe they have are actually ideas that most suppliers in the industry can think of. Companies like Hesai, which invest heavily in R&D and self-developed chips, have already covered common cost-reduction methods, so self-development by car manufacturers does not necessarily lead to better cost reduction. **Q: Besides agricultural robots, what other products will have application scenarios, and which markets will be key markets in the future?** **Li Yifan:** Hesai leverages the extreme cost, quality, and mass production advantages accumulated in the Chinese automotive industry to expand into non-automotive sectors, such as lawnmowers and low-speed delivery robots, to meet their demand for lidar without the need to develop new products. This market segment has great potential. **Q: Is the transition from automotive lidar to AI robot lidar a dimensionality reduction process? Are there any challenges or difficulties in the robotics field?** **Li Yifan:** Technically, there are no significant difficulties after dimensionality reduction; the main challenge lies in the small demand in certain industries, making it difficult to reach the scale of one million units for automotive-grade products. The key is whether a single product can meet the needs of multiple industries, which is a challenge in product definition. In terms of productization, it is essential to concentrate platform technology on one or two products, refining and improving them while reducing costs for widespread application. Conversely, designing dedicated radars for each industry would lead to an overly dispersed product line, which is not conducive to company development. Therefore, it is advisable to streamline the product line to solve multi-industry problems with a limited number of products. **Q: What is your judgment on the price of automotive lidar in 2025? How much further do you think it will decrease?** **Li Yifan:** This is public information. Our new product is priced around $200, and some models will achieve mass production this year, which will reduce its cost compared to 2024. As a new product using next-generation technology, we can effectively control and reduce production costs while improving performance **Q: Based on the information you have obtained, are there any models claiming L3 this year? There has been a viewpoint that achieving L3 level autonomous driving must have perception redundancy.** **Li Yifan:** I cannot directly answer this question, but I agree with the latter part. There are two reasons why I cannot answer directly: first, I do not wish to answer on behalf of the car companies, and second, I believe whether it can be achieved also depends on the final national laws and regulations, which have not been finalized yet, so I actually cannot answer on behalf of the car companies ### Related Stocks - [HSAI.US](https://longbridge.com/en/quote/HSAI.US.md) - [09868.HK](https://longbridge.com/en/quote/09868.HK.md) - [TSLA.US](https://longbridge.com/en/quote/TSLA.US.md) - [DRIV.US](https://longbridge.com/en/quote/DRIV.US.md) - [IDRV.US](https://longbridge.com/en/quote/IDRV.US.md) - [600562.CN](https://longbridge.com/en/quote/600562.CN.md) - [601777.CN](https://longbridge.com/en/quote/601777.CN.md) - [300552.CN](https://longbridge.com/en/quote/300552.CN.md) - [09866.HK](https://longbridge.com/en/quote/09866.HK.md) - [688522.CN](https://longbridge.com/en/quote/688522.CN.md) - [600418.CN](https://longbridge.com/en/quote/600418.CN.md) - [603997.CN](https://longbridge.com/en/quote/603997.CN.md) - [688552.CN](https://longbridge.com/en/quote/688552.CN.md) - [688167.CN](https://longbridge.com/en/quote/688167.CN.md) ## Related News & Research - [Varroc Engineering Limited Earnings Missed Analyst Estimates: Here's What Analysts Are Forecasting Now](https://longbridge.com/en/news/304706800.md) - [Orkla India Limited Just Recorded A 9.8% EPS Beat: Here's What Analysts Are Forecasting Next](https://longbridge.com/en/news/304706787.md) - [Sathlokhar Synergys E&C Global (NSE:SSEGL) Is Posting Solid Earnings, But It Is Not All Good News](https://longbridge.com/en/news/304707952.md) - [Trump administration ends California balloting lawsuit](https://longbridge.com/en/news/304706824.md) - [Revenue Beat: Capacit'e Infraprojects Limited Exceeded Revenue Forecasts By 14% And Analysts Are Updating Their Estimates](https://longbridge.com/en/news/304708150.md) --- > **Disclaimer: This article is for reference only and does not constitute any investment advice.**