---
title: "Dialogue with William Li: NIO Fires a Shot at BBA's Profit Fortress"
type: "News"
locale: "en"
url: "https://longbridge.com/en/news/282360187.md"
description: "Conquering territory"
datetime: "2026-04-10T14:25:25.000Z"
locales:
  - [zh-CN](https://longbridge.com/zh-CN/news/282360187.md)
  - [en](https://longbridge.com/en/news/282360187.md)
  - [zh-HK](https://longbridge.com/zh-HK/news/282360187.md)
---

# Dialogue with William Li: NIO Fires a Shot at BBA's Profit Fortress

![Image](https://imageproxy.pbkrs.com/https://wpimg-wscn.awtmt.com/e4253a2d-bdb5-45d8-8045-ee4accf0f6a7.jpeg?x-oss-process=image/auto-orient,1/interlace,1/resize,w_1440,h_1440/quality,q_95/format,jpg)

Author | Chai Xuchen

Editor | Zhou Zhiyu

In the Chinese automotive industry, there have always been only two types of car companies that dare to set prices above 500,000 yuan: traditional luxury brands recognized by the market, and pioneering new forces that push upward through sheer product strength.

In 2025, the AITO M9 became a massive hit, single-handedly breaking through the "blockade" of BBA (BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Audi) and Porsche. The price segment above 500,000 yuan is their most core fortress, offering the highest profit margins.

But there is an overlooked point in this story. Looking at the order structure of the AITO M9, the range-extended (EREV) version accounts for over 80%. Looking at the Maextro S800, EREV models even accounted for over 90% of its 2025 sales. Consumers have accepted domestic brands, intelligence, and buying better experiences at lower prices, but they have not yet truly accepted pure electric (BEV) at this level.

On April 9, 2026, the NIO ES9 arrived, packed with a full suite of proprietary "black technologies," attempting to penetrate pure electric power into this most lucrative segment and rewrite the landscape of the 500,000-yuan high-end market.

In 2026, with the inclusion of the ES9 and the impending launch of the ONVO L80, and having caught the wave of large vehicles, NIO's main sales force will shift from the previous "5566" (ES6, EC6, ET5 series) to the higher Gross Profit "8899" (ES8, ES9 series). NIO Inc is finally monetizing its systemic capabilities, and the goal of full-year profitability mentioned by William Li no longer seems far off.

## Disruptor

The most core feature of the ES9 this time is that it is no longer just a "larger ES8," but a flagship large vehicle truly designed from the ground up.

In terms of exterior, the ES9 adopts a new design language. Its taller front end, matrix split headlights, and dual-layer daytime running lights are intended to project an air of superiority over rivals from the start. It's clear NIO is determined to establish its own high-end design language.

The cabin is another focal point for the ES9, offering both 6- and 7-seat layouts, with the 2+2+2 six-seat configuration as the highlight. Privacy is strongly emphasized; in addition to an in-car safe, the second and third-row windows utilize flexible electrochromic technology, allowing for partitioned light transmission adjustment. Combined with the already generous space, every passenger in the rear can adjust the ambient light to their needs.

Another surprise comes from the chassis and handling. A vehicle this large doesn't feel heavy at all. The tuning of rear-wheel steering, active suspension, and center-of-gravity layout makes it nimble in turns, stable at high speeds, and comfortable when filtering out bumps. Combined with NIO's battery swapping system—enabling a 3-minute energy replenishment—the last remaining anxiety for large pure electric SUVs has been thoroughly eliminated.

The ES9's goal is pure: it must be able to sustain the presence required for high-end executive reception while providing enough comfort for long-distance travel for families with multiple children. This is precisely where old-guard luxury brands like BBA find it difficult to achieve a "best of both worlds" balance.

NIO President Qin Lihong told Wall Street News frankly, "There is a significant demand in society that lacks supply. For example, at the executive flagship level, cars that feel like they hit the right spiritual value seem to evolve a bit slowly physically. Those that hit the physical parameters sometimes feel a bit hollow in spirit." He believes the ES9 "hits a need that everyone is thinking about but hasn't articulated."

A flagship doesn't necessarily mean low volume; the key issue remains price.

Under the battery leasing (BaaS) model, it starts at 420,000 yuan. For a full-size pure electric SUV with 6/7-seat layouts and almost all of NIO's top cards—powertrain system, battery swap network, 900V high-voltage platform, rear-wheel steering, active suspension, and full-stack intelligent driving.

What does this price mean? Qin Lihong did the math: "For a long time, luxury—especially imported—fuel vehicles started at at least seven figures." His conclusion: "Over time, many people have mistakenly assumed that high-end luxury SUVs should be priced this way. We are simply returning the price to its inherent value."

The Mercedes-Benz EQS SUV in the same class has a list price of over 900,000 yuan, and even with dealer promotions bringing it down to 610,000 yuan, it remains ignored—and it's an import. The BMW X7 currently only has a fuel version, with a pure electric version not expected until 2027 at the earliest. It's not just that the ES9 is cheaper; the key is that BBA has simply not provided users with a decent pure electric choice at this price point.

The ES9 doesn't just occupy a price point; it occupies a vacuum—a 500,000-yuan-class pure electric full-size SUV. Before it, this category barely existed on a global scale.

Looking at the sales charts, there are two models worth observing.

First is the familiar AITO M9. After Richard Yu's boast of "wiping out the competition" came true, the flagship experience of a million-yuan SUV was brought down to the 500,000-yuan level, rapidly activating the replacement needs of a large number of high-end customers. In the last two or three months, the Zeekr 9X has also seen rapid volume growth, showing momentum toward becoming the preferred ride for "new old money."

But a key fact has been overlooked by the market: the AITO M9's main sales come from the EREV version, accounting for over 80%; for the Maextro S800, EREV models even accounted for over 90% of its 2025 sales. This means that the explosion of the 500,000-yuan-class large SUV market is essentially still an EREV revolution; pure electric has never truly gained a say in this price segment.

William Li told Wall Street News: "Last year, at the ES8 product technology launch, we said the golden age of pure electric three-row vehicles was coming. Today, we can say it has 'arrived,' because over the past six months, pure electric large three-row SUVs have consistently ranked first among all powertrain types for large three-row SUVs and are growing the fastest, while EREV has actually ranked last."

The significance of the ES9 is precisely to bring the 400,000 to 500,000-yuan large SUV market into the pure electric era.

It targets a very clear customer profile: those users who want to buy a luxury pure electric vehicle but have never been able to find a suitable large car. These are the "pure electric converts" among BMW X7 and Mercedes-Benz GLS owners who look down on the compromise of EREV and may not necessarily accept the extreme tech-style interiors of Huawei. What they want is premium brand texture, high-end quietness, comfort, and quality service, all while being pure electric.

William Li's positioning for the ES9 is clear: "We believe it is a pioneer in the intelligent electric executive SUV category." He doesn't even consider other "9-series" models on the market as direct competitors—"Not everything called '9' is the same product; the positioning is very different." The ES9 is not stealing the "family" market from the Li Auto L9, nor the "tech" label from the AITO M9; it is pivoting to seize the "luxury pure electric" no-man's-land.

The market has given an initial response through orders. William Li revealed that from the night of the ES9 launch to the following day, "outside of the entire NIO community, the volume of orders from non-existing NIO users was more than 1.5 times that of the same period for last year's ES8 product technology launch."

This shows that the ES9 is attracting far more incremental users than internal conversions—those coming from BBA, considering NIO for the first time, are voting with their feet.

## Changing Fortunes

The significance of the ES9 to NIO is more than just adding another flagship model.

For a long time, NIO's sales pillars were the ES6 and ET5—internally known as the "5566 combination." These two models were priced around 300,000 yuan, had strong volume potential, and were the foundation for maintaining NIO's monthly sales scale. But the problem was also obvious: competition in the 300,000-yuan market is brutal, with constant price wars, putting persistent pressure on NIO's gross profit margins at this level.

Furthermore, while the 5566 supported sales, it couldn't fully support NIO's narrative as a "high-end brand." Market perception of NIO remained in a vague zone of "good service, convenient battery swaps, but the car itself isn't absolutely leading."

The turning point began in the second half of 2025.

The rollout of the ONVO L90 handed the task of "volume and customer acquisition" within the NIO system to the sub-brand. The L90 is responsible for broadening the entry point for family users, using a more accessible price to absorb the incremental market, thereby giving the main NIO brand space to break upward. Following this, the third-generation ES8 reappeared with a BaaS starting price of 298,800 yuan, holding the high-end ground for sales and brand. The L90 recruits new users, the ES8 defends the fortress—two lines each fulfilling their role.

But a complete brand matrix cannot only have volume and base-defending roles. Above the ES8, another car is needed to represent the ceiling of NIO's SUV manufacturing capabilities.

The ES9 is that role. Together with the all-new ES8, it forms a dual-flagship combination for 500,000-yuan-class large SUVs, directly raising NIO's product ceiling once again. Combined with the ONVO L80 set to arrive this year, NIO's product matrix has evolved from a linear layout of a single brand and price band to a complete network covering 200,000 to over 500,000 yuan.

This change is already reflected financially. Starting from the L90 to the new ES8, NIO's financial reports have shown a trend of turning from loss to profit.

In other words, NIO no longer needs to rely on "trading volume for profit" to keep the company running; instead, it can achieve a healthier profit model through the "reasonable volume of high-value models."

Behind this is the concentrated monetization of NIO's long-term technical investment. In the past few years, what the market criticized NIO for most was "spending too much and having too long a front line"—self-developed chips, self-built battery swap stations, self-developed battery packs, full-stack intelligent driving, phones, and sub-brands.

But when flagship products like the ES9 land, these investments begin to translate into actual product-level competitiveness. Technologies like the 900V platform and the battery swap network are not things that can be caught up on in the short term.

As William Li said: "Systemic competition is the true ultimate competition in the auto industry." The inflection point for technical monetization is the moment when the entire capability system is mature enough to support flagship products.

From 5566 to the ES9, NIO took seven years to complete the shift in its product focus. The shot William Li fired at BBA's profit fortress has been chambered; the rest is up to the market.

_The following is a transcript of the dialogue with NIO Chairman William Li and President Qin Lihong:_

**Question: You achieved your first profit in Q4 last year. Will this continue in the first quarter?**

**William Li:** Both NIO's ES8 and ONVO's L90 are selling very well. Of course, the cars have to sell well, otherwise how can we be profitable!

Second, the operational efficiency work we started internally last year and the year before has helped our profitability a lot, so our cost control capabilities have improved significantly.

Growth in the first quarter of this year was 98.3% year-on-year. It must be said that pressure on the entire industry in the first quarter was very high. Starting from Q2 last year, our overall delivery growth has been getting faster and faster. By the first quarter of this year, it nearly doubled, exceeding 80,000 units—over 83,000 deliveries—which is overall quite good.

I believe that starting from the second quarter, the delivery of the ES9 will bring more explicit and positive help to our company's overall operating profit.

**Question: Is the ES9 somewhat targeted at MPVs?**

**William Li:** Often people still have a sort of inertia—why make an MPV? MPVs do have their benefits, like high ceilings, convenient sliding doors, and lower steps. Compared to previous SUVs, their loading capacity is also stronger. But now we must let the facts speak. At the time, we said the ES8 could replace an MPV, and you could compare all the space parameters. This time, across 8 indicators, we were first in 7 and a close second in 1. What more can be said?

Like the 816-liter massive storage space—it's far superior to other MPVs. People used to say putting golf bags vertically was a problem; now you can put 4 in vertically. Let the facts speak; you really need to experience it. Friends looking to buy an MPV from 400,000 to 1 million yuan should experience it.

**Question: Does that mean we will never make an MPV product?**

**William Li:** Over the years, the question I've been asked most is when we'll have an MPV.

Truthfully, the math doesn't work out. I already have such a large executive SUV, and in 8 indicators, 7 are first and 1 is second—this is compared to the best-selling MPVs. Our company emphasizes ROI so much; we've calculated it repeatedly, and the math just doesn't work. Sales capacity and the company's overall bandwidth are limited.

Once I attended an industry meeting full of CEOs of listed companies, and someone asked when you're coming out with an MPV. I did an on-the-spot survey. I said, if we come out with an MPV, will you buy it? Out of 400 people, about 300 raised their hands. I have a background in sociology, so I'm very focused on user data.

But sometimes you can't just look at surface-level data; you have to think deeply about it. Think deeply about why they buy, what their deep-seated needs are. They aren't buying the MPV form; they are buying the fact that an MPV can meet their needs. You have to truly understand their needs clearly.

For example, above 400,000 or 500,000 yuan, is the best-selling model an MPV? Actually, it's not. Has the MPV market been growing over all these years? Actually, it hasn't. You have to ask these questions deeply.

Why doesn't the US President ride in an MPV? Why don't European dignitaries ride in MPVs? There's a reason. If you only look at the present and the surface, your product development will just follow the crowd. For users who want to buy an MPV, go check out our ES9 first and think carefully about what you actually want for that scenario.

Arriving for a new era—that's a new consumption concept. Our car is a joy to drive; "poetry and distance" are possible. Sitting quietly in the car can also help you focus and recover energy. I think that feeling is better. This is just our understanding; it might not be right. Ultimately the market speaks—whether we sell more than MPVs, the market will decide. You can look at the numbers in the coming months.

**Question: After a new technology or integrated new car is launched, it typically leads other brands by about 3 to 5 months. How do you view this so-called lead and the duration of the lead cycle?**

**William Li:** If you look at NIO's technological lead on the entire third-generation platform, some things are indeed not that easy to replicate, like the all-electro-hydraulic fully active suspension, because it's integrated and very compact. We've been tracking this technology for ten years, done extensive research, and even invested in the entire industry chain, including increasing capacity—it's quite complex.

While some in the industry are starting to do fully active suspensions, compared to the ET9, they are at least a year late, and quite a bit late compared to the ES9. There's a generational gap in technology compared to us.

We emphasize systemic innovation, not single-point innovation. The advantage grows larger over time—that's from a technical perspective. Ultimately, we welcome others to use these supply chain technologies. For example, with fully active suspension, we can still make money as a shareholder, which is great.

The second question follows: is just piling up technical parameters necessarily a good product? Definitely not. If you add these things, the actual cost will go up. Can the brand and the entire sales and service network support it? That's not a given. So sometimes we see cars with very top-tier configurations, but sales don't meet expectations. To a large extent, that's because of the brand, and behind the brand is a systemic capability.

All of our "six major systems" must have no weak points to support users of the BMW X7 and Mercedes GLS—executive SUV users—to transition to us. Only then will people feel that buying an ES9 is a very wise and forward-thinking choice. I think this is a comprehensive competition; it's not a match of individual technologies and configurations.

The entire industry chain of the auto industry is very wide and very long. And car users are not a one-time consumption. For a family, besides a house, a car might be the largest consumer good; the entire family's safety is closely tied to it. People are very cautious when buying cars.

Why choose this car? It's ultimate—including aesthetics and one's own consumption values reflected in many things. It can reflect a person's ultimate values even more than the clothes they wear. It's a very important and serious matter. And it will be used for many years—generally at least five or six, or even over a decade.

In such an industry, the final fight is definitely not on single points. For example, if we bring quality and service out as part of our core system—if a car from 3 or 4 years ago has a quality issue, won't you solve it? If a 10, 12, or 15-year-old car has a quality issue, can you just sit and watch? Systemic competition is the true ultimate competition in the auto industry.

Today the world's largest car company is Toyota. Sometimes you really can't see the difference in two or three years. If you just look at a Toyota, there are many places where other cars might seem better. But if you look at a 10-year-old Toyota, if you look at its residual value compared to other cars from 12 years ago, the difference is quite large.

When you look at a company's systemic capability, you look at these things. This is our thinking, and why we believed at our founding that "systemic capability" is where the ultimate competition lies.

**Question: Who is the target audience for the ES9, and where does it sit in the 9-series competition?**

**William Li:** I think the market for executive SUVs, or SUVs for executive use, is not small. Previously there was no good intelligent electric product supply, or supply with high technical content that met new consumption demands. I think the ES9 fills that gap.

We believe we are a pioneer in the intelligent electric executive SUV category. We don't feel there was such a product before. Currently, we don't particularly think other "9s" are competing with us. Some cars sell well, but they talk more about all-scenario use, which I think is closer to the target user definition of the ES8.

Because we describe the ES8 as an all-scenario flagship SUV, that's our thinking. So, just because it's called "9" doesn't mean it's the same product; the positioning is very different. Of course, each company's product sequence definition varies. You can see NIO is very rigorous in defining its sequence and product line.

**Question: What was the order situation last night?**

**William Li:** First of all, it definitely met our expectations. From the release last night until now, outside of the NIO community, orders from non-existing NIO users are more than 1.5 times the volume of the same period for last year's ES8 product technology launch. This makes us quite happy.

**Qin Lihong:** Because there's a large part of demand in this society that lacks supply. For example, at the executive flagship level, cars that feel like they hit the right spiritual value seem to evolve a bit slowly physically. Those that hit the physical parameters sometimes feel a bit hollow in spirit.

Intelligent, electric, flagship SUV—bringing these things together. Perhaps our ES9 hits a need everyone is thinking about but hasn't articulated. There's a lack of supply in this area.

**Question: Why is the ES9 much cheaper than the ET9?**

**Qin Lihong:** In the past, the price of the ET9 was bundled with service rights worth nearly 100,000 yuan, but now they can be decoupled. To be honest, I think it's right for the ET9 to be priced higher than the ES9. The ET9 is a product that takes every possible detail to the extreme.

The ET9 will be a choice for a relatively smaller group. We feel the value and price relationship between it and the ES9 is now properly aligned.

Yesterday on-site, I met a group of ET9 users who came from all over the country. Many of them purchased the ES9 again, feeling that a "double 9 pairing" at home is great. Some feel they are temporarily short one parking space and haven't ordered yet, but they also think it's good, making our ET9 seem even more prestigious.

**William Li:** There's also a very realistic factor. The volume of the ES9 will definitely be larger than the ET9. As an executive flagship, the ET9's volume will certainly be smaller than an executive SUV; that's normal in the industry. In that case, depreciation and allocation are at a bit of a disadvantage, so its cost is indeed much higher.

**Question: What is the delivery ramp-up rhythm for the ES9 this year?**

**William Li:** Because the ES9 uses many high-tech components, ramping up production is a challenge. We are working hard with our supply chain partners. Since last year, NIO has sped up the ramp-up after product technology launches. Today there are already display cars in the showrooms—over 600 of them—which shows our preparation was sufficient. We will build new cars soon, aiming for "delivery upon launch."

Of course, if everyone is particularly enthusiastic, we will face "happy problems" like wait times, which are all predictable. But we've made good preparations for that enthusiasm. Currently, there will be some initial capacity pressure, but we are quite well-prepared.

Having more of these "happy problems" is a good thing.

**Question: Will the ES9 compete with ES8 sales? What is the company's expectation for the ES9's gross margin per vehicle?**

**William Li:** The needs met by the ES8 and ES9 are different. For an ES8 user, from a budget perspective, buying an ES9 is no problem; for an ES9 user, buying an ES8 is even less of a problem. It depends on user needs. The ES9 is more of an executive SUV positioning; if there are more business scenarios, it might be better.

But the ES8 is all-scenario—for home, unit, or company use—the scenarios are richer and the positioning is different. Buying either is fine; I don't think there will be an impact. ES8 orders have been quite good these two days. Yang Bo, who is in charge of sales, is also here. The ES9 should actually increase ES8 sales; more people come in, and some who find the ES8 suitable will buy it.

The gross profit per vehicle will definitely be the best among all our SUVs.

**Question: You expect sales growth of 40% to 50% this year. The ES9 is the first new car this year. Does NIO have any other model plans for this year?**

**William Li:** This year we hope to maintain 40%-50% growth in our third growth cycle. The market is very dynamic, and we need to look closely at market changes. From a first-quarter perspective, we were over 98%. For the second quarter, last year's Q2 base was certainly higher; as we move forward, the base from last year gets higher. Last year's Q4 exceeded 120,000 units, so growth will face more challenges later. Overall, we have confidence in completing our set delivery goals.

As for new cars, we will release many in the second quarter, like the L80 and the new L90. In the second half of the year, the NIO brand will have a large 5-seater ES8.

**Question: Relying on the NIO Group's battery swap system and the systemic innovation advantages, is it true that other competitors in the market won't be able to compete with these three models using pure electric vehicles in the short term, as most other models are EREVs or plug-in hybrids?**

**William Li:** Last year at the ES8 product technology launch, we said the golden age of pure electric three-row vehicles was coming. Today, looking at the market share for pure electric large three-row SUVs over the past half year, it has continued to climb. Its golden age is not "coming"; it has already "arrived." This is because pure electric large three-row SUVs have consistently ranked first among powertrain types for large three-row SUVs over the past half year and are growing the fastest. EREV is actually ranked last, and manufacturers of EREV large three-row SUVs are all pushing pure electric. When they push pure electric, they face some awkward realities, like how big of a battery to use or what chemical system. They face choices.

Also, if you don't have battery swapping, you have to do ultra-fast charging. Ultra-fast charging requires a trade-off in the overall architecture and cost. There's no technical route that only has advantages and no disadvantages. Our battery swapping also has disadvantages—the disadvantage is that I have to build a huge number of battery swap stations. That's a disadvantage; we've invested over 20 billion yuan. But once built, it becomes an advantage. This is what I mean by systemic competition—it's not a single point. But the choice of technical route requires systemic thinking. At certain points, the advantage might not be visible, but NIO has always been committed to being a friend of time. We hope that over time, our competitiveness will be more visible. The recent popularity of these models proves that point.

**Question: In previous years, many large-displacement fuel cars from abroad would raise prices at will, but top Chinese intelligent electric cars like to help wealthy people save money. When can Chinese intelligent electric vehicle brands also enjoy the high premium brought by their brand?**

**Qin Lihong:** It's true that for a while, luxury—especially imported—fuel cars were at least seven figures. But we have to see objectively that there were two drivers. One is tax; imported large-displacement cars face a 40% import tax plus consumption tax. Perhaps more than half the cost of those "imported luxury cars" is tax. But users need to be clear about what money they are spending for what.

Second, it's a supply and demand issue. There was a lack of supply for better products at this level. Supply was less than demand, and because of taxes, the price effectively doubled, creating that price system. Over time, many people mistakenly thought high-end luxury SUVs should be this price. we are just returning the price to its proper value, that's all.

**William Li:** I also don't understand why Europe only imposes extra taxes on Chinese pure electric cars. We only have pure electric; if we had oil, it would be easy. We only have pure electric, so pure electric cars going to Europe are incredibly expensive. Conversely, in Europe, people think NIO is more expensive than Porsche.

In China, we see these executive vehicles and flagships, many of which are produced in Europe. When they come to China, there are tariffs, consumption tax based on displacement, shipping costs—it all adds up, so they are much more expensive than in Europe. Cars in the 400,000 to 500,000-yuan range in China today are a very good value for this reason.

From another angle, users buying cars at this level, or buying high-end brands, aren't just looking at the functional experience. Brand positioning and comprehensive factors are indeed very important, including service experience.

Yesterday a friend who was an investor in a dealership group said the GLS isn't selling well. He had a need to buy a car. Previously there was no good supply. After years of effort by NIO, everyone feels that having NIO as the next car after BBA is acceptable. When we said this before, people thought we were arrogant; today we look at reality. For example, in Shanghai, for several consecutive months, we've had higher sales than BMW—I'm talking about all their cars, not just electric.

**Qin Lihong:** Last month in Wenzhou, NIO's sales in March already surpassed any of the BBA brands.

**William Li:** We've achieved this in many areas and cities in the Yangtze River Delta. This is because we've gradually achieved this in many regions, especially where consumption concepts are relatively innovative. You can put yourself in those shoes: if you want to buy a decent high-end brand car, a good car, if you put other factors aside, buying a NIO is very reasonable.

From the perspective of BBA users trading in, I think choosing NIO is a very suitable choice. There are other brands to choose from, but choosing NIO is definitely very reasonable, extremely reasonable. Product, service, quality—all things considered, it's very reasonable. Brand positioning is very reasonable. This is our persistence in high-end brand positioning, technical innovation, and systemic innovation. Today it's a natural progression, meeting the needs of a considerable portion of high-end brand users.

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