Transcript: Kirby Q1 2026 Earnings Conference Call

Kirby (NYSE:KEX) released first-quarter financial results and hosted an earnings call on Thursday. Read the complete transcript below. This content is powered by Benzinga APIs. For comprehensive financial data and transcripts, visit https://www.benzinga.com/apis/. Access the full call at https://edge.media-server.com/mmc/p/g5yzap2q/ Summary Kirby reported a 13% year-over-year increase in EPS for Q1 2026, driven by improved market fundamentals in marine transportation and strong demand in power generation. The inland marine segment saw improved utilization and pricing, with barge utilization averaging in the low 90% range, while coastal marine utilization was in the mid to high 90% range. Distribution and services segment revenues increased 12% year over year, driven by power generation growth, but faced challenges due to OEM engine availability. Kirby raised its EPS guidance for the year, expecting continued strength in marine transportation and power generation, despite potential near-term cost headwinds. Management highlighted strong operational execution and cost discipline, with a focus on maintaining high utilization and improving pricing across segments. Full Transcript OPERATOR Good day and thank you for standing by. Welcome to Kirby Corporation 2026 First Quarter Earnings Conference Call. At this time all participants are in a listen only mode. After the speaker's presentation there will be a question and answer session. To ask a question during the session you will need to press star 11 on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising your hand is raised to withdraw your question. Please press star 11 again. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Matt Karen, please go ahead. Matt Karen (Moderator) Good morning and thank you for joining the Kirby Corporation 2026 first quarter earnings call. With me today are David Grzbinski, Kirby's Chief Executive Officer Christian O'Neill, Kirby's President and Chief Operating Officer and Raj Kumar, Kirby's Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer. A slide presentation for today's conference call as well as the earnings release which was issued earlier today can be found on our website. During this conference call we may refer to certain non GAAP or adjusted financial measures. Reconciliations of the non GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures are included in our earnings press release and are also available in our website in the Investor Relations section under Financials. As a reminder, statements contained in this conference call with respect to the future are forward looking statements. These statements reflect management's reasonable judgment with respect to future events. Forward looking statements involve risks and uncertainties and our actual results could differ materially from those anticipated as a result of various factors. A list of these risk factors can be found in Kirby's latest Form 10K filing and in our other filings made with the SEC from time to time. I will now turn the call over to David. David Grzbinski (Chief Executive Officer) Thank you Matt and good morning everyone. Earlier Today we announced first quarter earnings per share of $1.50, a 13% year over year increase compared to 2025's first quarter earnings per share of $1.33. Our first quarter results reflected improving market fundamentals in marine transportation with utilization and pricing strengthening as the quarter progressed alongside continued strength underlying demand for power generation in distribution and services while results were partially impacted by weather related disruptions in navigational delays in our inland marine transportation operations and ongoing OEM related supply constraints in distribution and services. Underlying demand conditions remained strong across both segments. Overall, our combined businesses executed well and generated positive momentum entering into the second quarter in inland marine market fundamentals improved throughout the quarter as customer demand strengthened, refinery utilization increased and barge availability remained limited. As expected, operations were impacted by typical seasonal weather lock delays and other navigational disruptions. However, market conditions became increasingly constructive with barge utilization strengthening as the quarter progressed and averaged in the low 90% range for the full quarter. Spot pricing improved in the low single digits sequentially. Term contract renewals were flat to slightly up year over year and pricing momentum continued to build during the quarter. Overall, the inland business delivered strong operating margins in the high teens range for the quarter driven by improved pricing and disciplined execution. Entering the second quarter, demand visibility has continued to improve supported by strong refinery utilization and improving conditions across petrochemical markets, contributing to strong utilization and improved pricing. Coastal marine transportation fundamentals remained strong throughout the first quarter with barge utilization averaging in the mid to high 90% range, which was supported by steady customer demand and limited supply of large capacity vessels. This favorable supply demand dynamic continued to drive pricing gains with term contract renewal rates rising in the 20% range year over year. Our team delivered strong operational execution and maintained a disciplined focus on cost efficiency and this resulted in operating margins in the high teens range. Turning to distribution and services Segment results reflected mixed conditions across our end markets with power generation remaining a key growth driver. Segment revenues increased 12% year over year but declined sequentially due to OEM engine availability and continued softness in conventional oil and gas activity. Operating income increased modestly year over year though declined sequentially as margin performance varied across our businesses. In power generation, revenues grew 45% year over year from solid backlog execution and significant demand for behind the meter power solutions. However, revenues declined sequentially as OEM engine deliveries were lower in the quarter. Operating income increased year over year with margins remaining in the mid single digit range in commercial and industrial. Revenues increased 8% sequentially and operating margins were in the high single digit range supported by strong marine repair activity and disciplined execution in oil and gas. Revenues improved 13% sequentially though results continued to be pressured by softness in conventional oil and gas markets and resulted in margins in the mid single digit range. Overall, the segment remains well positioned with steady execution across a diverse portfolio of end markets. In summary, Kirby continues to operate from a position of strength. Marine transportation fundamentals remain constructive with high utilization and improved pricing across both inland and coastal markets in distribution and services. Strong activity in power generation and commercial and industrial markets continue to offset softness in our conventional oil and gas business. With this backdrop, combined with solid execution and ongoing cost discipline, we announced in this morning's press release that we are increasing our EPS guidance range for the year up 5% to 2%, up 15%, which is up from flat to up 12% previously. I will discuss our outlook in more detail in the call, but first I will turn it over to Raj to discuss the first quarter segment results, balance sheet and capital allocation in more detail. Raj Kumar (Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer) Thank you David and good morning everyone. In the first quarter of 2026, Marine Transportation segment revenues were 497 million and operating income was 90 million with an operating margin of 18%. Compared to the first quarter of 2025, total Marine Transportation revenues increased 21 million or 4% and operating income increased 3 million or 4%. When compared to the fourth quarter of 2025, total Marine revenues increased 3% and operating income decreased 11%. As David mentioned, typical seasonal winter weather produced a 25% sequential increase in delay days and negatively impacted operations and efficiency in the first quarter. Looking at the inland business in more detail, the inland business contributed approximately 79% of segment revenue. Average barge utilization was in the low 90% range for the quarter, which was an improvement over the fourth quarter of 2025 and in line with the first quarter of 2025. Long term inland marine transportation contracts or those contracts with a term of one year or longer contributed approximately 65% of revenue with 56% from time charters and 44% from contracts of afflatement. Improved market conditions resulted in spot market rates moving up in the low single digits sequentially but were down in the mid single digit range from a year ago. Our term contracts that renewed during the first quarter were flat to slightly up compared to the first quarter of 2025. Inland revenues were flat but increased 4% compared to the fourth quarter of 2025 due to improved market conditions. Inland operating margins were in the high teens range. Now moving to Coastal business. Coastal revenues increased 23% year over year driven by strong customer demand and limited availability of large capacity equipment. Overall, Coastal had an operating margin in the high teens range benefiting from higher pricing and effective cost management. The coastal business represented 21% of revenues for the marine transportation segment. Average coastal barge utilization was in the mid to high 90% range, which was in line with both the first quarter of 2025 and the fourth quarter of 2025. During the quarter, the percentage of coastal revenue under term contracts was approximately 92%. Renewals of term contracts were on average approximately 20% higher year over year. With respect to our tank barge fleet for both the inland and coastal businesses, we have provided a reconciliation of the changes in the first quarter as well as projections for the full year. This is included in our Earnings Call presentation posted on our website at the end of the first quarter, the Inland Fleet had 1,124 barges representing 25.1 million barrels of capacity and is expected to be slightly up in 2026. Coastal Marine is expected to remain unchanged from the first quarter of 2026. Now I will review the performance of the distribution and services segment. Revenues for the first quarter of 2026 were 347 million with operating income of 23 million and an operating margin of 6.7%. Compared to the first quarter of 2025, the distribution and services segment revenue increased by 37 million or 12%, with operating income increasing by approximately 1 million or 3%. This growth was primarily driven by power generation and strong marine repair activity. When compared to the fourth quarter of 2025, revenues decreased by 23 million or 6% and operating income decreased by 7 million or 22% as a result of lower power generation shipments due to OEM engine availability, weakness from on highway repair and continued softness in the conventional frac market. Moving through the segment in more detail, in power generation we continue to see meaningful order activity for the behind the meter, prime power and backup power solutions for data centers and other industrial applications. This has resulted in continued growth in our backlog. However, engine availability from OEMs is limiting how quickly some of that demand converts to revenue. Overall, total power Generation revenues were up 45% year over year with operating margins in the mid single digits. Power generation represented 44% of total segment revenues. On the commercial and industrial side, activity was strong in marine repair and as a result commercial and industrial revenues increased 1% year over year and 8% sequentially. Commercial and industrial made up 46% of segment revenues and had operating margins in the high single digits. In the oil and gas market, we continue to see softness in conventional frac related equipment as lower rig counts and fracking activity softened demand for new engines, transmissions, service and parts. Throughout the quarter, Revenue in oil and gas was down 25% year over year but increased 13% sequentially while operating income was down 53% year over year and down 28% sequentially. Oil and gas had operating margins in the mid single digits in the first quarter and represented 10% of segment revenue. I will now move to the balance sheet. As of quarter end we had $58 million of cash with total debt of 983 million and our debt to capitalization ratio was 22.3%. We ended the first quarter with 635 million of available liquidity. During the first quarter we entered into an amended and restated credit agreement that extended the facility maturity date to March 26, 2031 and increased the revolving credit facility commitments to 750 million and eliminated the term loan credit facility. During the quarter, net cash provided by operating activities was 97.7 million and capital expenditures were 48.3 million and resulting in free cash flow of 49.4 million. In the first quarter of 2026, Kirby returned 52.7 million of capital to shareholders through share repurchase at an average price of $123.18. We continued to execute on our focused and disciplined acquisition strategy by agreeing to acquire 23 barges and three high horsepower boats from an undisclosed seller in the inland Marine business for 95.8 million of which 81.4 million was paid during the first quarter. With respect to CapEx, we continue to expect capital spending to range between 220 and 260 million for the year. Approximately 170 to 210 million is associated with marine maintenance capital and improvements to existing inland and coastal marine equipment and for facility improvements, approximately 65 million is associated with growth capital spending. In both our businesses we remain on track to generate cash flow from operations of 575 to 675 million for the year resulting in expectations for another year of very strong free cash flow generation. As always, we remain committed to a balanced capital allocation approach using free cash flow to return capital to shareholders while pursuing long term value creating investment and acquisition opportunities. I will now turn the call back to David to discuss our full 2026 outlook. David Grzbinski (Chief Executive Officer) Thank you Raj. We are off to a solid start in 2026. Global macro and geopolitical developments, including Iran conflict,, the Venezuelan oil situation and the broader geopolitical uncertainty continue to create near term variability. That said, the current conditions are proving somewhat supportive for our operations in inland marine. We anticipate positive market dynamics driven by limited new barge construction and strong demand from refining and petrochemical customers. Barge utilization is expected to be in the low 90% range as we move through the year. This is supported by strong refinery utilization and improving chemicals activity. However, we do expect near term cost headwinds in our inland marine operations during the second quarter due to rising fuel, particularly diesel costs. We currently expect the cost escalators and rate recovery mechanisms in our contracts will lag the near term fuel cost increases during the second quarter but will ultimately be realized in the following quarters in the second half of the year. As most of you are aware, there is generally a 30 to 120 day delay or lag before term contracts adjust for fuel we anticipate this timing issue could result in approximately 5 to 10 cents of earnings per share impact in the second quarter. Overall, we expect inland revenues to grow in the low to mid single digits on a year over year basis with margins averaging in the high teens to low 20% range for the full year. In coastal marine market conditions remain favorable with balanced supply and demand across the fleet. Steady customer demand is expected to continue through the balance of the year with barge utilization in the mid 90% range. While we anticipate elevated shipyard activity in the second quarter, we continue to expect mid single digit revenue growth year over year and operating margins in the high teens driven by gradual pricing improvements as term contracts renew. In distribution and services segment, ongoing demand in power gen and marine repair activity is expected to help offset softness in on highway service and repair and low levels of oil and gas activity with results remaining mixed overall. In powergen, underlying demand fundamentals remain strong. Results, however, continue to be impacted by engine availability. Delayed OEM engine deliveries continue to contribute to variability and as a result we expect approximately 10 to 15 cents of earnings per share impact in the second quarter as certain projects shift into the second half of the year due to delayed engine deliveries from OEMs. As we have discussed in the past, engine availability rather than end market demand continues to be the primary constraint in this business. Within commercial and industrial marine repair demand remains healthy while on highway service and repair demand continues to be constrained. In oil and gas results continue to be pressured by lower overall activity as the shift away from conventional frac continues and customers maintain a disciplined approach to capital spend. However, the current oil and gas ecosystem may become a potential upside if it persists much longer. Overall, the distribution and services segment continues to benefit from its diversified end market exposure and in particular the power gen ecosystem. Overall, the company expects segment revenues to be flat to slightly up for the full year with operating margins in the mid to high single digits. To conclude, we're off to a solid start in 2026 and have a favorable outlook for the remainder of the year. With a strong balance sheet and solid free cash flow, we continue to allocate capital in a disciplined manner, balancing share repurchases with opportunistic investments and acquisitions. Overall, we expect solid financial performance this year as is reflected in our decision to increase full year EPS guidance, and we see supportive fundamentals driving continued earnings growth beyond 2026 and well into 27 and 28. Operator, this concludes our prepared remarks. Christian, Raj and I are now prepared to take questions. OPERATOR Thank you. At this time we will conduct the question and answer session. Please limit to one question and one follow up. To ask a question, you will need to press Star 11 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star 11 again. Please stand by while we compile the Q and A roster. Our first question comes from the line of Greg Lewis from btig. Greg, your line is now open. Greg Lewis (Equity Analyst) Hey, good morning and thank you for taking my questions. And hey, congrats on a good quarter. Hey, question. Around the inland barge business, clearly it seems like things are strengthening. I guess what I'm kind of curious about is what is driving that incremental tightness? Is it those, it looks like Venezuelan barrels are up over the last couple months. Crack spreads are obviously higher, so refiners are making more money. Are we seeing actual incremental volumes or is it just everybody else is making more money? David Grzbinski (Chief Executive Officer) Yes. Good morning Greg. Thanks for the question. Yeah, no, throughout the quarter we started January kind of a continuation of what we were seeing in the fourth quarter. The Venezuelan crude was starting to come in. We started to see that as a positive impact, you know, so we started in January pretty strong and then you know, crack spread started to gap out and you know, refinery volumes just got really tight. So it built throughout the quarter. So it's actually more volumes moving. Also we're very pleased to see some more chemical activity. Some of the chemical companies supply chains were disrupted in the Middle east and there's more volumes moving here in the US because of that. You know, it's been very constructive. We were happy to see it. And you know, the good news is it's continued. We're seeing momentum actually build a little bit right now. Greg Lewis (Equity Analyst) Okay, great. And then I did have a question and you kind of called it out about engine availability to kind of keep driving the power gen market higher. Is there any kind of way to like think about like Kirby or KDS's visibility around. What lead times do you get from the OEMs about engine availability? Is it? Yeah, I'm just trying to understand like clearly we've raised guidance, we're confident we're going to be getting them. But I'm just kind of curious about that visibility around, being able to get engines and turn around and put them in customer hands. David Grzbinski (Chief Executive Officer) Yeah, we have good visibility through 27 and I would tell you in certain OEMs were sold out through 27. So we have a good idea. A lot of it is in the backlog. Some of it is already in sales. the good news here is the engine OEMs are flat out. They're running hard. They're all trying to increase capacity. They're sold out into 29, most of them. So we feel really good about our allocation. You know, we're considered one of the premier system integrators out there and we continue to get good allocation. It's just really tight. And that's the good news. They're very tight. Everybody wants the engines. You know, the fun thing for us is it's not just standby diesel applications anymore. It's behind the meter. And we love the behind the meter stuff. It's more sophisticated, it's highly engineered. We have a great offering in. It started really with our EPRAC offering but we have a good service set of engineering capabilities in behind the meter 247 power. And the great thing about that is it's going to run, the equipment's going to run, it's going to have a repair and parts replacement cycle that's going to come in the outer years. So it's all about good demand that's shifting engine deliveries and we see that lasting for quite some time. These behind the meter contracts that some of our customers are having, some of them go for seven to in one case we know of a 15 year contract. So the co locators and hyperscalers are not using behind the meter power as bridging anymore. This is becoming prime. So we're pretty excited about the way it looks. And when we look at our backlog, you know, behind the meter is now eclipsing, you know, just standby diesel generation. Which means a lot more service. Greg Lewis (Equity Analyst) Thanks for the time. Raj Kumar (Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer) That's super helpful. I was just going to add Greg with the behind the meter. We've always talked about it, the margins are better than the backup stuff. Right. And David referenced the service revenue. That's going to be even better margins, Greg Lewis (Equity Analyst) I mean and Raj, not to paint you in a corner but in any kind of sense, any kind of sense you can disclose about, I mean when we say better, points or tens of basis points? Raj Kumar (Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer) So it's, this is how I'll describe it on the behind the meter, on the prime side, you're probably looking at low double digit margins. And when you, when I talked about the service revenue, that's, you know, you're looking at about, you know, a couple of years out, that's probably going to be north of that. Thanks Greg. OPERATOR Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Ben Moore from Citi. Ben, your line is now open. Ben Moore (Equity Analyst) Hi, good morning. Congrats on the great results and also the raise. Just wanted to piggyback on Greg's first question there. Looking at the drivers from FRAC spread, widening chems exports, Venezuela heavy crude imports that you mentioned and possibly the Bolero Fire bypass moves. Just wanted to get a sense of those contributors. Can you tell us how is it that you're able to raise your EPS target range but maintain your revenue and margin targets and maybe talk to some of those contributors on what's driving the guide raise but maintaining the revenue and margin? David Grzbinski (Chief Executive Officer) Yeah, I mean, the revenue and margin. Well, good morning, Ben. Thanks for the question. The revenue and margin guidance, you know, is a range and you know, this just moved it up to the higher end of that range, in my opinion. We'll see. You know, the good thing about pricing on the inland side is it does fall through the bottom line. So, you know, the margin side is where we'll see it. Any rate, I think the more important thing on the inland is the supply and demand dynamic. I'm going to let Christian give you some color there because that's really what's driving this, the raise. And also it portends really well for 27 and 28. Christian O'Neill (President and Chief Operating Officer) Christian, why don't you give them some color on supply and demand? Yeah, you bet. Good morning, Ben. Thank you, David. Yeah, what we see right now is a tremendous amount of momentum that started building in March. We've already referred to the conflict in the Middle east and what that's done to crack spreads and to petrochemical. An awakening in petrochemical margins and activity. Beyond that, the supply side is still in great shape. There were only 66 barges built last year. You know, it is an inexact science. We think maybe 70 on the books for this year. That's replacement capacity. We don't see anybody measurably growing the fleet. And some of that building is for a shipper. Their own internal moves and they're going to retire some older equipment. So we feel really good about the supply setup. Barges are still very expensive. It still is $4.5 million to build a typical plain vanilla, clean 30,000 barrel tank barge. We see capital discipline in the market and so supply is in a great spot. You know, beyond the petrochemical momentum and the refining margins, we see some other nuanced things. Like on the horizon, the Calcasieu lock will shut down daytime hours only in May. And you know, that's going to be another, you know, tailwind for us, that will, you know, unfortunately cause some congestion on the intercoastal canal. But that is the most dense, highest traffic lock in the inland waterway system. And we'll add a day transit either east or west when that goes down. So it's a very constructive setup for inland as well as coastal. And we're feeling really good about the momentum we have right now. Ben Moore (Equity Analyst) That sounds great. Thank you so much. And you mentioned that it portends well for 27, 28. And maybe if I could just ask, where could you see your inland and coastal roughly 20% margins and your power gen, roughly 5 to 10% margins. Where could they go in a strong market? David Grzbinski (Chief Executive Officer) Yeah, look, last really upcycle before people started building, we got to I'd say 27% margins for a quarter or so. I think it'll be slow and steady. We won't pop there next year, it'll take a couple years. But I certainly believe that we'll go above the last cycle peaks margin on the inland side. I think on the coastal side it probably won't get that high. The cost structure is a little different, but it certainly could move into the the mid-20s. In terms of margin, as Christian referenced, there's just no building. It doesn't make sense to build right now. The cost of new barges, cost of new boats is very expensive. You know, rates need to be, you know, if you have good capital discipline, rates need to be a good 40% above where they are right now to justify new builds. So, you know, we look at a slow and steady ramp into 27 and 28. You know, it's hard to predict exactly when we'll get to peak margins. I would just add, you know, in the last couple years we had a maintenance bubble. These Barges have a five year maintenance cycle. So starting at the end of 27, the beginning of 28, we're going to have another maintenance cycle. So, you know, things could get Pretty sporty in 28. We'll see on the power gen, margins is, you know, as Raj talked a little bit about, you know, behind the meter power systems have a higher margin than just standby diesel. So, you know, I'd like to see our KDS business get the high single digits and ultimately into low single digits, double digits. But that's going to take some time. It is very mix sensitive as you've seen. You know, our margins were down a little bit sequentially because of mix, but it should be building. And then when you get to out years, as Raj said, there's the service component that's going to start kicking in these behind the meter running 247 engines. They're going to need serious maintenance after about three, four years of running heavy. So that's a long winded answer, Ben. I hope it gives you some color though. Ben Moore (Equity Analyst) Really appreciate that. Long winded is always great. Maybe if I can squeeze one last one in. Last quarter you gave that your power gen backlog grew 30% year over year and then you guided to power gen revenue growing 10 to 20% with the bottleneck coming from the OEM. Could you give us an update on that? Any changes up or down on both those numbers, the 30% backlog growth and the 10 to 20% revenue guide? David Grzbinski (Chief Executive Officer) Yeah, I think I gave a mentioned backlog. We don't want to get into the backlog announcing backlog every quarter. But I gave a range you could drive a truck through. I said 500 to a billion dollar backlog. We may have to update that because we are going to go out the top end of that range. But we're not just ready to do that just yet. But you know, it continues to grow is what I would say. You know, book to bills well above one, you know, things, things look really positive in the space. Ben Moore (Equity Analyst) Much appreciate that. Thank you. David Grzbinski (Chief Executive Officer) Thanks Ben. OPERATOR Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Ken Hexter from Bank of America. Ken, your line is now open. Adam Roskowski Hi, Adam Roskowski on for Ken Hexter. Thanks for taking my question. I guess to start, maybe just remind us what portion of the inland book is going to reprice into Q3, Q4 and anything that you're seeing on early renewals still flat to slightly up trending better. Any thoughts there? David Grzbinski (Chief Executive Officer) Yeah, sure, Adam. Christian, I'll tag team this a bit. You know, as we've indicated in the past, term renewals are very fourth quarter heavy. You know, about 40% of the term portfolio reprices in the fourth quarter. Just to give you some quick numbers, you know, term contracts are about 65% of our revenue right now with the other spot. Christian O'Neill (President and Chief Operating Officer) Christian, you want to talk some more about the pricing dynamic and now term and spot roll. Yeah, you know, you asked about what the flow is through Q2 and Q3. Excuse me. As far as renewals. Chris, you got choked up. You choked him up. David Grzbinski (Chief Executive Officer) Sorry. He's got a frog in his throat. Yeah, you know the term contracts, as I said, 40% in the fourth quarter. So the remaining 60% kind of gets spread between the other three quarters. As you would expect, the third quarter is probably heavier than the first and second quarter, in our prepared remarks, we said the term pricing so far was flat up just slightly. The good news is that spot pricing is a good 10% above term pricing, maybe even more. And, you know, that's a healthy market when spot usually leads term both on the way up and on the way down. So we're very constructive about how term contracts should renew throughout the remainder of the year, you know, but the fourth quarter is the bigger piece. I think Christian's got his voice back. Anything you want to add? Christian O'Neill (President and Chief Operating Officer) No, I think you covered it. Adam Roskowski Thanks for the color and glad to have you back. Christian, maybe just on the recent strength you mentioned improved conditions in petrochem markets, strong refined utilization. Clearly you called out a Venezuela kind of incremental impact. Sounds like some Middle Eastern activity or flow through is favoring this as well. So is there any sense of what is being driven by which or how much is being driven, maybe by incremental Venezuela impacts or Middle Eastern activity? Any broad thoughts there? Christian O'Neill (President and Chief Operating Officer) Well, it's hard to exactly kind of put a number on it. I will say we do see moves that we know of from refineries that are chomping through a lot of Venezuelan crude, creating more intermediates and more heavies. We have seen some refiners term up some equipment that has thermal capability, the ability to move the heavier residual barrel. So we definitely have seen the impact. But it's hard to sort of peg the exact, you know, amount of crude oil that's going through Venezuelan crude oil that's going through any refinery on any given day. So it's just sort of more of a nuance. We see more volumes, we see more intermediates, we see more heavies. Got it. Adam Roskowski Thank you. Christian O'Neill (President and Chief Operating Officer) And other interesting demand anecdotes. You know, with the release of the SPR and the Venezuelan crude coming into the Gulf of Mexico, we have seen the traditional crude pipeline capacity that moves crude around the Gulf of Mexico get sort of overwhelmed. So we have seen incremental crude oil barge movements as a result of the pipeline capacity being oversubscribed at this point. Probably not something that goes on in perpetuity. But just thought I would mention it as an interesting demand driver that's sort of tied to Venezuelan crude in your question. Yeah, I mean, shale crude, if you look at WTI Brent, you know, the spread is opened back up. And generally when that. When the spread between WTI and Brent starts to gap out, we start to see some incremental US Crude moves. So, you know, we watch that. I mean, if you're Looking for crude moves for us on the inland waterways. Just look at that spread and you can pretty much get a feel for what direction it's headed. Adam Roskowski That's helpful, thanks. And just one last follow up, Jones act waiver was recently extended for another 90 days. Seems like this isn't impacting fundamentals in a major way or at all at this time. But just any thoughts on near or medium term impacts if this is extended further? David Grzbinski (Chief Executive Officer) Yeah, the near term impacts are almost non existent as you would expect. Adam. On the inland side, there's really no foreign tonnage that can come into the inland waterways. So we feel pretty good about that. And as you know, inland's about 80% of our marine segment. The blue water side's a little different. Tankers and tonnage can come in and trade and we have seen that come in a bit. But as you know, we're booked up. You know, our fleet's essentially 100% contracted. On the blue water side, those contracts run about a year. If waivers go beyond that, you know, we could start to see some impact. You know, we have seen a number of non Jones act moves in the market. You know, I would characterize, you know, well, let me, let me back up. We know what the administration's trying to do. They're, you know, trying to deal with the war. They're worried about national security and military readiness and getting fuel where it needs to be to support their efforts. And we're all for that. But I would say the blanket waivers that, that are out there, we'd rather see, you know, it be a specific waiver. So we have seen some Jones act moves that I would call arbitrage related where traders are making some money rather than actually serving, you know, military readiness. So we watch it, you know, we're not concerned about it if it's short term, but you know, if it starts to extend past a year, it could have some impact. And you know, I think Christian has some antidotes about some mariners asking about it. Why don't you hear that? Christian O'Neill (President and Chief Operating Officer) Yeah, no, I think, you know, the elephant in the room. I know I personally have seen no impact on the price of gasoline where I fill up my car as a result of the waiver of the Jones act. But I have 40 captains in today that I'm going to have lunch with and looking forward to that. I caught up with one this morning, had a cup of coffee and you know, unintended consequences I'm sure is the administration has been a strong advocate for the blue collar worker. But this Captain was worried about the Jones act waiver, was worried about his job, was worried about his son that wants to get into the industry. So these type of things can have a chilling effect on the merchant mariner, which is a real strength for this country and a chilling effect on our ability to recruit, retain. So you know, I think the administration has good intentions, but we certainly don't want to do anything to disincentivize our hardworking merchant mariners. And you know, there's units out there on the west coast and some other places that have lost jobs to foreign flag tonnage. And I don't, you know, let's get back to targeted waivers as David mentioned, if anything rather than this blanket waiver. Sorry, I can get on a soapbox on this topic. I'm going to get off and get back to the call. Thanks. Adam Roskowski Thank you. I appreciate the time. OPERATOR Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Scott Group from Wolff Research. Scott, your line is now open. Scott Group (Equity Analyst) Hey, thanks. Good morning. So helpful color on spot. I just have a couple follow ups. So where is spot trending on a year over year basis? And that, that 10 point spread of spot over contract, I'm just curious like where did that trough last, you know, middle of last year when when things more challenging when, like when a couple years ago when things were really, really good in terms of pricing, where was that spread? I just want to put some context around this sort of double digit spread. David Grzbinski (Chief Executive Officer) You know, we'll try and give you some color here. Good morning Scott. You know 10% is a healthy gap above, above spot. You know, I think when it really gets sporty it's more like 10 to 15%. You know, obviously when it's going down spots below terminal. You know, last year, you know we as you know we third and fourth quarter were a little tighter and I would say that that gap was more like 5 to 10%, maybe 7 and a half on average if I had to pick a number. But you know, right now we're at least 10% and probably growing a bit and I think Christian can add some more color. Christian O'Neill (President and Chief Operating Officer) Yeah, I think the recent momentum, you know, as of March and what we're seeing, the pace at which we're pushing spot rates and achieving that is clipping pretty good. And David pegged it, you know, right at 10 and it's probably headed to 15 in the not too distant future. Percent. Scott Group (Equity Analyst) Okay, that's helpful. And then maybe just a little bit of an update on the M and A environment. So we did some tuck in Barge, you know, acquired Some barges. Do you think that's going to continue? Is that more likely than doing something larger? Just any sort of overall thoughts on barge acquisition? David Grzbinski (Chief Executive Officer) Yeah, well, Scott, as you know, love acquisitions in our core businesses, particularly in the inland space. You know, our ability to integrate them is really powerful. I think Christian had this latest little tuck in integrated within four hours. All the barges were operational within four hours of closing. So we love those inland transactions. We're always looking at them. We still have 25 or so competitors out there. We'd be happy to buy any one of them, but we remain very capital disciplined and so there's always a bit off or spread. Predicting a larger one is difficult at best. We certainly have the balance sheet capacity for it. You'll see, like our debt to EBITDA is probably 1.1, 1.2. So we have plenty of balance sheet capacity. Raj upped our revolver from 500 to 750. We'd certainly, while we're always looking at acquisitions, we're certainly open minded to them. But I would just add on capital deployment, as Raj mentioned in his prepared remarks, as we generate free cash flow, if we can't put it to work in a good acquisition, you'll see us buy back our stock. We like our stock where it's at and we're happy to deploy our free cash flow back that way. That said, we always do prefer acquisitions, particularly in the inland space, but any of our core businesses, we're always looking. It's just hard to predict those. Scott. Scott Group (Equity Analyst) Okay. And then one last thing. I apologize if I missed this during prepared comments. So I know you said there's going to be some pressure on coastal margins in Q2, but any sort of color around, like the magnitude of that or maybe just overall sort of margin expectations for the quarter. David Grzbinski (Chief Executive Officer) Yeah, we just have a. Actually we got our margins in the first quarter were a little better in Coastal. One of the big units moved from first quarter into second quarter. And as you know, these large units can cost $60,000 a day. So when they're out, they can be impacted. I don't have good guidance for, for Coastal on the margin. I think maybe Raj and Matt can give you some color later. Raj Kumar (Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer) Yeah, I think, Scott, I mean, it depends on the shipyard, right. How long the shipyard is going to last for. And as David mentioned, this could be quite long. What we do well is we try and manage the duration of the shipyard, working very closely with them, and we do a very good job. We had some good progress last year. I think we talked about it last time. Where? In the Q2 Q3 timeframe, we were able to get out of the shipyard quicker than what we expected. We'll see how it goes in Q2, but that's what we're going to do. We control what we can control. Scott Group (Equity Analyst) Okay, thank you, guys. Appreciate it. OPERATOR Thank you. Thank you. This concludes the question and answer session. I would now like to turn it back to Matt Karen for closing remarks. Matt Karen (Moderator) Thank you, James, and everyone on the call for participating in our call today. If you have any additional questions or comments, please feel free to contact me. Thank you and have a good day. Disclaimer: This transcript is provided for informational purposes only. While we strive for accuracy, there may be errors or omissions in this automated transcription. For official company statements and financial information, please refer to the company's SEC filings and official press releases. Corporate participants' and analysts' statements reflect their views as of the date of this call and are subject to change without notice.